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Author Topic: New kid on the block  (Read 10516 times)
SuziQ
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« on: September 25, 2007, 06:23:58 AM »

Hi everyone - I'm Sue and I'm new.

I'm 45 years old and about to cycle using both donor eggs and sperm.

My XDH and I tried for 11 years without success to have a child.  We separated 6 years ago and in the past 2 years I've had 3 solo IVF attempts using my own eggs - again no success.

I have a 'known' SD - I met him through his wife who is an ED.  I now also have an ED that offered to donate to me in January.  At that time she had just given birth to her third child and we agreed to take our time before we actually cycled.

She lives about 8 hours north of me and will be coming down in three weeks for her drug pickup.  We're looking at cycling mid to late November.

I'm looking forward to getting to know everyone in here and following your stories.

 Smiley  Sue
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Hursty
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« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2007, 08:43:58 AM »

Hi Sue
Welcome to this site. My name is Sue too though I get called Hursty as well.
I have a son who is now 5. I am 47 now. Jethro was born in 2002 a day after I turned 42 after I had spent since I was 38 trying to conceive naturally and then with IVF. We resorted to advertising for an egg donor and got one when I was 41 as my eggs were no longer viable. Glad at least your donors are going to be known and wish you luck. Its a big thing you are doing and I hope it will be right for you.
Sue
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Quinny
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« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2007, 03:02:06 AM »

hi SuziQ,

Thankyou for sharing your story. It's great that you are willing to come forward to talk about it.

I apologise in advance if my questions seem rude. Feel free not to answer them. Smiley

Since this is using sperm and egg donors, do you view this to be like adoption at all?

Will the child be able to know and/or interact with its donors and half-siblings from both families?

cheers,
Quinny
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Donor conceived adult from Perth, Western Australia. Searching for a donor who donated to Dr Colin Douglas-Smith in 1976.
SuziQ
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« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2007, 10:37:41 AM »

Not rude at all Quinnie.  I'd much prefer people ask - donor conception is still such a taboo subject - the more informed the world is the better accepted it will be.  Well, I hope so anyway.  20 years ago IVF was a hush hush subject but, thanks to people talking openly about it, it's in the media all the time now and nobody bats an eyelid. 
Back to your questions.  This is exactly like an adoption, the only difference being that I carry the child.  Recent studies have found that a child's makeup isn't solely determined by the genes in the egg and sperm.  It's believed now that it's the birth mother that shapes things.  Here is a link if you're interested in that stuff. 
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=79093.msg1063970#msg1063970
Hope it's ok to post links?  I have two cousins who were adopted in the traditional way.  Their mother refers to them as 'being born in her heart if not under it'.  I'm hoping I'll have the best of both worlds.
My child will know how they came to be from the age at which I believe they will understand it - the younger the better.  It's very important that they learn of their beginnings from me and not a well-meaning or unthinking relative.  There is still a lot of ignorance around regarding donor conception.  My child will know both my ED and SD - one lives interstate and the other very close to the border.  Both of my donors are happy to donate and to receive annual updates/photos etc.  Neither expect any more than that.  None of us want my child to grow up confused and feeling as though they have too many parents!!  It's horses for courses though and I understand that some people like their donors to play a more regular and closer role.  We all agree that any resulting child needs to know of their biological half-siblings and to meet them.  None of us like the idea of any of them 'hooking up' in a bar somewhere IYKWIM  Wink
That was longer than I intended it to be  Embarrassed
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Hursty
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« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2007, 10:59:55 AM »

I read this poem some many years ago re: adoption and I changed it a little and stuck it away in Jethros album for him to find one day. I'll write both versions
ADOPTION
Not flesh of my flesh
Nor bone of my bone
But still
Miracuously - my own.
Do not forget
for even a minute
You did not grow under my heart
But in it.

FOR MY BOY
Not flesh of my flesh
Nor bone of my bone
But still
 Miracuously - my own
Do not forget
for even a minute
You not only grew under my heart
But in it.
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Quinny
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« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2007, 12:01:34 PM »

Thankyou for answering my questions and for the link, SuziQ.

The idea is interesting and I'd like to read more about it, does anyone know of any references?

We do know that babies are affected in the womb, that's why alcohol and cigarettes are discouraged. Our bodies are always affected by things, but does this change the genes? I'd be interested to know.

Sue, thanks for posting the poem. Smiley
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Hursty
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« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2007, 10:51:11 PM »

 Hi Quinny - I have had this conversation with Damian before and yes to a certain extent the mother carrying the baby ie in the case of me carrying Jethro when it was Cyntra and Andrews genetics which formed him - my body did play a part in determining which genes of Cyntras and which of Andrews became more predominent - I think! This was how I understood it. So therefore Jethro is still a combination of Andrew and Cyntra and I helped which bits won! Damian would be able to clarify this - being our own scientist! Did I get it right?  Smiley
Sue
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dadams
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« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2007, 10:45:46 PM »

Dear SuziQ and Sue,

the link posted is just a forum posting much as these posts are and I would not consider any information posted on any forum as gospel unless you know the author to be credible or not and what their sources are. I'm not saying that the author is not credible I just find the post to be extremely misleading. I also do not want to rain on anyone's parade but it is a LOT more complicated than anyone seems to think. I am also not saying that I am an expert either (there are plenty of others who know more than me).
But the embryo's genes are entirely derived from the biological father and mother. This is without question.
There are millions of genes that do so many different things and millions that we have no idea what they do. Many of these genes will NOT be influenced by external factors. Some will.
Cytokines from the gestational mother can affect certain gene expression. However, these external signals are only going to affect a very limited number of genes, many of which will have to do with metabolism and immunity.
If anyone thinks that a gestational mother can influence the colour of the childs hair or eyes then they have another thing coming. They will on the other hand have a big influence on other factors such as the size of the baby when born.
As for the gestaional mother having an affect through her own body on the childs innate personality (not learned) then that would be highly debatable and I don't think that we will ever find out the answer to that. Personally I believe that a large component is already determined by the combined genetics of the egg and sperm. And that further refinement is a learned response from interaction with their environment (which can also be gestational - sounds etc).
Everyone must remember that a foetus is also basically a parasite.
I hope this helps a little but it probably just makes things more confusing which it pretty much is really.
Cheers
Damian
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Hursty
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« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2007, 11:24:24 PM »

Hi Damian
Not at all confusing! And thanks for clarifying it (again 4 me).
It was how I was understanding it basically anyway as if an embryo (parasite?Huh!!!)
is formed by an egg from one person and an sperm from another then there is no changing or compromising those dynamics. It does get a little confusing after that about how the gestational mother can make certain genes more dominant in certain areas but yes I get the general gist of it - basic biological makeup will not be changed at all. We had this talk last night Jethro and I. It was kind of hard / yet good to see things being worked out in his brain. We were reading "sometimes it takes 3 to make a baby". And we all decided he has his Dads nose. Then Jethro said he thought he had my eyes. Then he said hang on what colour are your eyes? I said green. He said hmmmmm mine are brown. Dads are blue. I said maybe your eyes are like.....? He said Cyntra's. (and they are) We decided he's scared of the dark like me. I know alot of the conversations we have from now on will probably hurt sometimes but at the same time it is so nice to see him putting everything into persective. I'm proud of him.  Smiley
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dadams
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« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2007, 10:37:13 PM »

Hi Sue
it is great that you are having these conversations with Jethro no matter how painful they may be at times. Kids never cease to amaze me with what they are able to comprehend and even work out for themselves (eg the eyes as he managed to work out by himself).
I had to talk to my daughter (4 yo) a couple of weeks ago as I had just lost my grandfather. It was difficult to explain the death thing and answer all the why's? She took it all in and understood because she was pretty much able to relay the same thing back to me several days later.

All the best
Damian
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Hursty
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« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2007, 10:56:15 PM »

Hi Damian
Yes it is good that Jethro is asking and working things out. He's a clever boy so now he is making connections it wont take him long to get the whole story worked out.
And like you say it never ceases to amaze me either. Kids are so smart. (and people think they can hide things from them such as their biological heritage and imagine the kids wont feel different or know "something" is amiss). 4 -5 yr olds must start realising lots of things in the human way cause Jethro and I have had to  talk about death lately as well after going to a funeral. I found it more uncomfortable talking about death than DC issues!!! The questions are full on.
I am still dreading the question (that may never come) "So does this mean Cyntra is my real Mum?" I have an answer ready 'I think'. I think I will say yes we both are. You are made from Cyntras egg and you are a part of her family and you grew inside me - and Daddy and I are your parents.And carry on from there...............
I am interested to hear Jethro's take on all this when he is older. I hope he will be comfortable with it all because of the openness he has grown up with.
Cheers
Sue
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dadams
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« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2007, 10:32:48 PM »

Hi Sue,

and while it may be interesting to see what Jethro makes of it, just remember that his thoughts and feelings on this could constantly change as he grows, matures and his life experiences change also.

Cheers
Damian
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Hursty
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« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2007, 05:45:47 AM »

Yes thats a good point!! We all do it dont we. (change our thoughts as we grow and learn and experience life). Hope I live long enough to go through it all with him!
You recieve the tape yet? I sent it last week.
Sue
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dadams
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« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2007, 10:32:11 PM »

Yes I did I got it last night - thankyou. watched it last night.
Do you need it back?
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Hursty
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« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2007, 11:01:46 AM »

Glad you got it ok and it was taped well enough to watch!
No thanks I dont need it back - my friend is still getting around to giving me a DVD recording of it, so I will have that to keep. I'm getting a real little library happening here - just in case Jethro grows up and thinks I'm wacko - I can show him why I have done what I have!  Smiley
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